[QuadList] 'Laugh-In': where are they now? (was "Laugh-In (was "Assemble edits vs Insert edits")")
James Snyder
snyder at dtvexpress.net
Fri Jan 29 01:55:16 CST 2010
I am pleased to report that the majority of the 'Laugh-In' master
tapes from NBC Burbank are in our collection at the Library of
Congress. We are really looking forward to migrating them, probably
sometime this year for the first few test episodes. Our quad
migration area is just now being prepared to be brought online, and
we've got plenty of favorite programs we want to try out!
We don't yet know if we have the original edit masters (with splices)
or the edited dub masters (the tapes that could be played to air
after dubbing from the edit masters. I'm really hoping we don't have
to deal with 40 year+ splices. Yuck.
BTW: George Schlatter was the producer.
Thanks for the great stories! We'll probably have follow up chats
with folks as we start the migration process.
Stay tuned!
James
------
James Snyder
Senior Systems Administrator
Library of Congress -
National Audio Visual Conservation Center (NAVCC)
Packard Campus for Audio Visual Conservation
Culpeper, VA
>Steve,
>
>
>Laugh-In came and went before my time. George Slaughter was still
>doing other shows though. I did playback a few Laugh-In masters for
>dubs. I cannot describe the sound of hearing several hundred splices
>go by in either play or rewind. The playback servo may have been in
>H just in case.
>
>
>Art Schneider just passed away recently. There are not too many
>editors amongst us with first hand accounts. However, I just
>received a reply for a general description from one who was there.
>Here is a portion of that note:
>
>
>"I did not edit on Laugh In but just recorded sometimes to give
>breaks and play back the ESG at times. Esg was an audible time code
>to us. A matter of fact I still have the original audio tape
>recording of that ESG.
>Let me try to remember the process.
>There were several guys on this show, Al Gage, Charlie Tant, Gus
>Aguilara, John Teele, Bill Gamboa, Armond Pourtris, Art Schnieder
>and Ken Baker. Bill Amadon recorded the audio in the audio room.
>At that time we recorded with the same quad head remember? Later a
>kine scope was make of the recordings with a footage counter
>inserted. They did edit the film first using the slates and notes,
>and when it was done it was conformed by editing the video tape to
>match. There was a special table with spool holders and an audio
>head so you can hear the sound. Remember there was no line switching
>during the recordings so the editors did the conforming by listing
>to the sound track and knowing the video head with 9 inches behind
>the sound head. So see it was simple!, haaaaaaa.
>The liquid used to expose the pulses on the video tape was freon
>and you squirted some in the graphite bottle then you used a small
>bush. You brushed the filings on the inside of the tape about one
>eight of an inch wide and it exposed the control track pulses. So to
>make a splice you had to wear white gloves so you wouldn't leave
>hand grease on the tape. When you looked into the smith splicer you
>would cut right next to the pulse and between the video guard bands.
>You had to make sure you were consistent thru the whole process.
>When you were ready to cut you placed these tape holders on the
>splicer down and made the cut fast to get a nice clean edge. Once
>cut you flipped a lever to lift the tape up and you would then lay
>the sticky splicing tape straight across the cut and roll out any
>bubbles. Then you trimmed the sides off. I think that is it , very
>simple. "
>
>
>More later from others.
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>
>David Crosthwait
>DC Video
>www.dcvideo.com
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Thomas, Stephen D <sdthomas at cbs.com>
>To: Quad List <quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com>
>Sent: Thu, Jan 28, 2010 10:36 am
>Subject: [QuadList] Laugh-In (was "Assemble edits vs Insert edits")
>
>
>
>David,
>
>Thank you for explaining the process youwent through with the shows
>at NBC Burbank, where I was born (coincidentally)in December 1956.
>I'm sure it was of interest to many on the list,including myself.
>
>Did you happen to work on "Rowenand Martin's Laugh-In?" Wikipedia
>describes the edit processlike this: "The show was pre-recordedat
>NBC's BurbankFacility. Since timecode-controlled videotape editing
>had not been invented atthe time, montage was achieved by the
>error-prone method of physical splicing of the two-inch
>quadraplextape. This had the incidental benefit of ensuring that the
>master tape would bepreserved, since a spliced tape could not be
>recycled for further use. Laugh-In Editor ArthurSchneider won an
>Emmy Award in 1968 for his pioneering use of the"jump cut" -- the
>unique editing style in which a sudden cut from oneshot to another
>was made without a fade-out."
>
>I have read elsewhere that the show waskinescoped and the film was
>edited into a rough-cut that was later used to editthe videotape.
>Could you elaborate further on this complex process?
>
>
>SteveThomas
>
>SENIOR EDITOR andTECHNICAL DIRECTOR
>phone: 248.351.7905
>e-mail: sdthomas at cbs.com
>"This user thinks that there are too many people who don'tknow that
>they're worse thantheir own children atspelling!"
>
>
>
>From:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com[mailto:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com]
>On Behalf Of dcfwtx at aol.com
>Sent: Thursday, January 28, 20101:14 PM
>To:quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com
>Subject: Re: [QuadList] Assembleedits vs Insert edits (wasOMG!!!!)
>
>
>
>George and all,
>
>
>
>Depending on the nature of the editsession and the time factor (how
>close to air time), edit sessions were insert(on time-code black
>tapes as NBC used to call it) or assemble. For example, inthe late
>70's, I worked (recorded and then edited) a load of NBC game
>shows(Hollywood Squares, Password Plus, Card Sharks, etc.) all on
>2". If theshow was a total rebuild (in the case of severe show
>disruptions due to gamingproblems, other production issues, or
>technical glitches-rare in Burbank), the sessionwould be built on
>time-code black tapes as an insert session. This was usuallyin edit
>two (TR 70B's with the RCA/EECO single event edit controller) or
>inedit three (TR 70C's with the RCA/EECO single event edit
>controller). Bothrooms had a GVG 1600 switcher and access to an HS
>200. If it was a simple pullup session, assemble edits were the
>fastest way to get the show done. Simplyone copy (two were made at
>show time) was added/pulled up to the other copy,thereby generating
>an edit master to time. All 2" stock as 3M 400 or 420.The edit
>master was dubbed to three other tapes when finished. The EM and a
>dubwent to 30 Rock, the other two were for Burbank.Game shows were
>never a situation where it was close to air. They were taped 5per
>day (with a meal break), several weeks in advance. On the other
>hand, TheTonight Show was rarely a rebuild as the turnaround was too
>close. It waseither spliced or assembled edit (as in a pull up). The
>turnaround time wasmuch more critical when the show was ninety
>minutes as opposed to the latersixty-minute shows (thanks to
>Johnny's contract modification in the early80's).
>
>
>
>One cottage industry at Burbank was the creation of time-code
>blacktapes (known as crystal black or black&coded tapes at some
>otherfacilities). Jake (at that time) would come in and load up
>every available2" machine (there were about 40 in Burbank)and record
>time-code-black tapes all night (all six Ampex machines and all
>theTR 70's and 600's). That's all he did from about 11P to 7A. A lot
>of 3M 2"stock was consumed overnight, both new and low-pass. He did
>a great job inassessing the TCB's on hand and what was needed (30,
>60, and 90 minuteloads).
>
>
>
>The entire edit department in conjunctionwith zone delay and
>production VTRs was well organized at that time.
>
>
>
>David Crosthwait
>
>DC Video
>
>www.dcvideo.com
>
>
>-----OriginalMessage-----
>From: georgenann at aol.com
>To: quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com
>Sent: Thu, Jan 28, 2010 8:16 am
>Subject: [QuadList] OMG!!!!
>
>Hey Guys,
>
>
>
>Just received the following from Ted,regarding one of my boo boo's:
>
>
>
>
>Hi, George,
>
>
>
>
>On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:30 PM, georgenann at aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>Also if I remember correctly,at least with the Ampex machines the
>cap actualy freeruns momentarily inan assemble edit. Also I think
>this is the reason that at least atCBS insert edits were never used,
>always used insert edits. I think thisstigma has stuck around for
>some time, even though insert edits are now OK withthe newer
>machines.
>
>
>
>
>
>Did you mean to say "... at least atCBS assemble edits werenever
>used," and "even though assemble edits are now OK with thenewer
>machines"?
>
>
>
>Ted
>
>
>
>My computer put in the wrong word, itmust have been confused. Had I
>proof read that e-mail it should havesaid "CBSASSEMBLE EDITS WERE
>NEVER USED."
>
>
>
>ALso there two "L's" inactually, I apologize for that one also.
>
>
>
>Thanks to Ted and apologies if thiscaused loss of sleep or
>hypertension among the group.
>
>
>
>73,
>
>
>
>George Keller
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Please trim posts to relevant info when replying!
>Send QuadList list posts to QuadList at quadvideotapegroup.com
>Your subscribe, unsubscribe and digest options are here:
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>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Please trim posts to relevant info when replying!
>Send QuadList list posts to QuadList at quadvideotapegroup.com
>Your subscribe, unsubscribe and digest options are here:
>http://mail.quadvideotapegroup.com/mailman/listinfo/quadlist_quadvideotapegroup.com
>
>
>
>
>Steve,
>
>Laugh-In came and went before my time. George Slaughter was still
>doing other shows though. I did playback a few Laugh-In masters for
>dubs. I cannot describe the sound of hearing several hundred splices
>go by in either play or rewind. The playback servo may have been in
>H just in case.
>
>Art Schneider just passed away recently. There are not too many
>editors amongst us with first hand accounts. However, I just
>received a reply for a general description from one who was there.
>Here is a portion of that note:
>
>"I did not edit on Laugh In but just recorded sometimes to give
>breaks and play back the ESG at times. Esg was an audible time code
>to us. A matter of fact I still have the original audio tape
>recording of that ESG.
>Let me try to remember the process.
>There were several guys on this show, Al Gage, Charlie Tant, Gus
>Aguilara, John Teele, Bill Gamboa, Armond Pourtris, Art Schnieder
>and Ken Baker. Bill Amadon recorded the audio in the
>audio room. At that time we recorded with the same quad head
>remember? Later a kine scope was make of the recordings with a
>footage counter inserted. They did edit the film first using the
>slates and notes, and when it was done it was conformed by editing
>the video tape to match. There was a special table with spool
>holders and an audio head so you can hear the sound. Remember there
>was no line switching during the recordings so the editors did the
>conforming by listing to the sound track and knowing the video head
>with 9 inches behind the sound head. So see it was simple!, haaaaaaa.
>The liquid used to expose the pulses on the video tape was freon
>and you squirted some in the graphite bottle then you used a small
>bush. You brushed the filings on the inside of the tape about one
>eight of an inch wide and it exposed the control track pulses. So to
>make a splice you had to wear white gloves so you wouldn't leave
>hand grease on the tape. When you looked into the smith splicer you
>would cut right next to the pulse and between the video guard bands.
>You had to make sure you were consistent thru the whole process.
>When you were ready to cut you placed these tape holders on the
>splicer down and made the cut fast to get a nice clean edge. Once
>cut you flipped a lever to lift the tape up and you would then lay
>the sticky splicing tape straight across the cut and roll out any
>bubbles. Then you trimmed the sides off. I think that is it , very
>simple. "
>
>More later from others.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>David Crosthwait
>DC Video
>www.dcvideo.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Thomas, Stephen D <sdthomas at cbs.com>
>To: Quad List <quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com>
>Sent: Thu, Jan 28, 2010 10:36 am
>Subject: [QuadList] Laugh-In (was "Assemble edits vs Insert edits")
>
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>David,
>
>Thank you for explaining the process you went through with the shows
>at NBC Burbank, where I was born (coincidentally) in December 1956.
>I'm sure it was of interest to many on the list, including myself.
>
>Did you happen to work on "Rowen and Martin's Laugh-In?" Wikipedia
>describes the edit process like this: "The show was pre-recorded at
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC>NBC's
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burbank,_CA>Burbank Facility. Since
>timecode-controlled videotape editing had not been invented at the
>time, montage was achieved by the error-prone method of
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_video_editing>physical splicing
>of the two-inch <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadraplex>quadraplex
>tape. This had the incidental benefit of ensuring that the master
>tape would be preserved, since a spliced tape could not be recycled
>for further use. Laugh-In Editor
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schneider>Arthur Schneider won
>an <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Award>Emmy Award in 1968 for
>his pioneering use of the "jump cut" -- the unique editing style in
>which a sudden cut from one shot to another was made without a
>fade-out."
>
>I have read elsewhere that the show was kinescoped and the film was
>edited into a rough-cut that was later used to edit the videotape.
>Could you elaborate further on this complex process?
>
>Steve Thomas
>
>SENIOR EDITOR and TECHNICAL DIRECTOR
>phone: 248.351.7905
>e-mail: <mailto:sdthomas at cbs.com>sdthomas at cbs.com
>"This user thinks that there are too many people who don't know that
>they're worse than their own children at spelling!"
>
>
>From:
><mailto:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com>quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com
>[<mailto:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com?>mailto:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com]
>On Behalf Of <mailto:dcfwtx at aol.com>dcfwtx at aol.com
>Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 1:14 PM
>To: <mailto:quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com>quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com
>Subject: Re: [QuadList] Assemble edits vs Insert edits (wasOMG!!!!)
>
>George and all,
>
>Depending on the nature of the edit session and the time factor (how
>close to air time), edit sessions were insert (on time-code black
>tapes as NBC used to call it) or assemble. For example, in the late
>70's, I worked (recorded and then edited) a load of NBC game shows
>(Hollywood Squares, Password Plus, Card Sharks, etc.) all on 2". If
>the show was a total rebuild (in the case of severe show disruptions
>due to gaming problems, other production issues, or technical
>glitches-rare in Burbank), the session would be built on time-code
>black tapes as an insert session. This was usually in edit two (TR
>70B's with the RCA/EECO single event edit controller) or in edit
>three (TR 70C's with the RCA/EECO single event edit controller).
>Both rooms had a GVG 1600 switcher and access to an HS 200. If it
>was a simple pull up session, assemble edits were the fastest way to
>get the show done. Simply one copy (two were made at show time) was
>added/pulled up to the other copy, thereby generating an edit master
>to time. All 2" stock as 3M 400 or 420. The edit master was dubbed
>to three other tapes when finished. The EM and a dub went to 30
>Rock, the other two were for Burbank. Game shows were never a
>situation where it was close to air. They were taped 5 per day (with
>a meal break), several weeks in advance. On the other hand, The
>Tonight Show was rarely a rebuild as the turnaround was too close.
>It was either spliced or assembled edit (as in a pull up). The
>turnaround time was much more critical when the show was ninety
>minutes as opposed to the later sixty-minute shows (thanks to
>Johnny's contract modification in the early 80's).
>
>One cottage industry at Burbank was the creation of time-code black
>tapes (known as crystal black or black&coded tapes at some other
>facilities). Jake (at that time) would come in and load up every
>available 2" machine (there were about 40 in Burbank) and record
>time-code-black tapes all night (all six Ampex machines and all the
>TR 70's and 600's). That's all he did from about 11P to 7A. A lot of
>3M 2" stock was consumed overnight, both new and low-pass. He did a
>great job in assessing the TCB's on hand and what was needed (30,
>60, and 90 minute loads).
>
>The entire edit department in conjunction with zone delay and
>production VTRs was well organized at that time.
>
>David Crosthwait
>DC Video
><http://www.dcvideo.com>www.dcvideo.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <mailto:georgenann at aol.com>georgenann at aol.com
>To: <mailto:quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com>quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com
>Sent: Thu, Jan 28, 2010 8:16 am
>Subject: [QuadList] OMG!!!!
>Hey Guys,
>
>Just received the following from Ted, regarding one of my boo boo's:
>
>
>Hi, George,
>
>On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:30 PM,
><mailto:georgenann at aol.com>georgenann at aol.com wrote:
>
>
>Also if I remember correctly, at least with the Ampex machines the
>cap actualy freeruns momentarily in an assemble edit. Also I think
>this is the reason that at least at CBS insert edits were never
>used, always used insert edits. I think this stigma has stuck
>around for some time, even though insert edits are now OK with the
>newer machines.
>
>
>Did you mean to say "... at least at CBS assemble edits were never
>used," and "even though assemble edits are now OK with the newer
>machines"?
>
>Ted
>
>My computer put in the wrong word, it must have been confused. Had
>I proof read that e-mail it should have said "CBS ASSEMBLE EDITS
>WERE NEVER USED."
>
>ALso there two "L's" in actually, I apologize for that one also.
>
>Thanks to Ted and apologies if this caused loss of sleep or
>hypertension among the group.
>
>73,
>
>George Keller
>
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