[QuadList] Question of the week-RCA AE 6000 editor/TEP

Tue Mar 8 10:59:07 CST 2011

Ok let me put a PAL spin on it

Play  in machine in Pixlock so 4 field lock as set by the 12.5 edit pulse  

Record machine in Switch lock so 4 field lock from same edit pulse

Don’t disturb the record machine after lock up or it might not lock up to
edit pulses again

So you get 4 field edits

Remember when PAL came out we thought it was a 4 field system

The problem was the sync to subcarrier could change as the day went on and
if you edit to a different sync to subcarrier relationship the picture
twitches 110ns max to correct

So invisible edits were not possible only vision cuts could be edited

Remember this was a world of fixed or variable edits (switch on the splice
module)

Years on we discovered Pal had an 8 field sequence and field 4 had a
different subcarrier to sync relationship to field 8

and then we had to define sync to subcarrier relationship in degrees for one
of the fields

It effected not only VT but SPG’s so the first 8 field SPG was the blue
Seltech 

With two lights and you swung the subcarrier around until the two lights
came on

Difficult days for PAL users

By AE 600’s days we could swap field 8 and field 4 over 66 gold key 6

It might help it might not if you had a 55ns error then it was no use

If you had 100ns you could make 10ns with this command 

But we escaped drop time code and complex patches for Telecine

So I suppose it had to rain a little in our lives

TrevorB

UK Member

From: Gary Adams [mailto:garyada at ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: 08 March 2011 14:44
To: 'Quad List'; videovault at sky.com
Subject: RE: [QuadList] Question of the week-RCA AE 6000 editor/TEP

The TR-70 and earlier models did not have a real color frame detector.  I
think you could record a special 4 field (and maybe 8 field) pulse on the
control track which could be used to reliably lock to the house reference.
(Am I right about this or am I missing something? ) You could see the
flickering pulse next to the frame pulse on the control track.  That would
work for both record and playback decks, but you had to record this pulse
initially in order to use it.  You would still have to do a test edit to get
the phase right.  I’m not positive about this but I have seen this mode on
several models.  The TR-600 had a real color frame detector and would
actually detect the phase of the input video with respect to the tape demod
and lock accordingly.  When enabled, the deck would lock.  Detect, and bump
a frame if necessary.  If you were not particularly close to RS-170A, you
could get caught in the middle and bumping would continue.  

From: quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com
[mailto:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com] On Behalf Of David
Crosthwait
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 9:30 AM
To: videovault at sky.com; Quad List
Subject: Re: [QuadList] Question of the week-RCA AE 6000 editor/TEP

Guy and Trevor,

Then I stand corrected. At the time I was working with TR 70's, I never saw
the unit that Guy posted (thanks for the clarification by Chris Hill!). Just
the RCA programmers were the editor controlling the 70's in Burbank during
my tenure. Was the TEP smart enough to force color framing during pre-roll?
That's what took so long on the RCA programmers, which was time code based
(10 second on record).

David

On Mar 8, 2011, at 6:15 AM, Trevor Brown wrote:

Guy

That’s what our TEP looked like

I knew it was silver not black and you had to remember to switch it to
standby after the edit or it would stop the record when the counters were
full (10mins)

I think it was the first time I had seen wire wrap construction

Not a bad bit of kit just a bit slow by modern standards

Two machine only no external events

Just simple programmable cuts

TrevorB

UK member

From: quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com
[mailto:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com] On Behalf Of Guy Spiller
Sent: 08 March 2011 14:06
To: quadlist at quadvideotapegroup.com
Subject: Re: [QuadList] Question of the week-RCA AE 6000 editor/TEP

Here is a TEP.<image001.jpg>

On 3/7/2011 5:50 PM, Chill315 at aol.com wrote:

This is not the TEP.  That had thumb wheels only.

This is actually a programmer that was made by ECCO for RCA.  It consisted
of a number of parts. 

The top display was an auxiliary display panel.

The Unit Programmer is the middle unit that is a couple of rack units. 

The bottom was a transport control panel. 

It was possibly a system that was first used on Laugh In.  Can someone
confirm that?

Chris Hill

In a message dated 3/7/2011 5:31:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david at dcvideo.com writes:

Hello Trevor,

Thanks for the insight and the confirmation of similar problems with the TR
600's. At least I can say now "It wasn't just me".

In regard to the TEP, here are two shots (for those who have no idea what we
are talking about):

<image002.jpg><image003.jpg>

The TEP actually worked pretty well with the TR-70's. However, it was a 10
second pre-roll on the record VTR and five seconds on the source. Edit 2 and
3 at NBC Burbank had TEPs. 

David

www.dcvideo.com <http://www.dcvideo.com/> 

On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:08 AM, Trevor Brown wrote:

Ted thanks for the heavy weight credit

We had one three machine edit suite with equipped with TR600’s

If the crew leader had asked,  do you want to go and try and get the TR600’s
to lock up

or go see the nurse she needs to stick pins in someone’s eyes I might have
opted for the nurse

Like a lot of things the AE 600 was a good idea with poor implementation

It used an 8080 micro (big step up from RCA’s TEP is anyone remembers it
“Tape Editing Programmer”)

Machines had to be pulled into sync, but unlike previous systems that used
TSO to speed up or slow down the capstan

and create major servo disturbances  

The AE 600 reprogrammed a counter chain in the capstan servo

This was I think 4.3. 4 in pixlock  and either 4.4.4 or 3.4.3 to speed the
tape up or slow it down (cannot remember the original numbers or what they
were counting)

So the lock to station sync slipped one way or the other without major servo
disturbances, and so station lock was a quick recovery process after time
pulling the time codes into the correct sync

It was a poor lockup system and frequently failed

Worst was the non standard logic to drive it, it was complex with a mix
needing the third machine to stagger start

Numerous keystrokes and only an external event to drive the mixer, so if the
preview was OK you had to remember to reset the mixer or it would toggle the
wrong way on the print

Add to that a ¼ tape deck (again external event fired) to lift audio and mix
it across the edit which again needed re cueing after a preview

and the  operating alone could make grown men cry, before machine lock up
problems.

Easy to look at the director and ask is that what you wanted, it was so long
ago when you explained I have forgotten

and if you did like the P/V can I repeat it, I never smiled like the guys in
the picture

Trevor B

UK Member

From: quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com
[mailto:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com] On Behalf Of Ted Langdell
Sent: 07 March 2011 15:54
To: Quad List
Subject: Re: [QuadList] Question of the week-RCA AE 6000 editor

Here's a shot of what looks very much like a version of the AE-6000 in an
RCA trade show booth:

http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/TV/rca-tr600.jpg

Perhaps someone on the list remembers this particular booth?

Or the people in that shot or this one:

http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/TV/rca-tr600(nab77).jpg
<http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/TV/rca-tr600%28nab77%29.jpg> 

The guy in the blue suit and glasses could be the person sitting in the
director's chair at the editor console.

Ted

On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:36 AM, David Crosthwait wrote:

The answer is the 

RCA AE 6000 "Automatic Computerized Editing"  devise.

"A new sophisticated editing system providing optimum simplicity and
efficiency to enhance creative expression". (I've had some "creative
expressions" when editing with TR-600A's which cannot be printed here).

<RCA AE 6000 bro1x.jpeg><RCA AE 6000 bro2x.jpeg><RCA AE 6000 bro3x.jpeg><RCA
AE 6000 keyboard1.jpg><RCA AE 6000 screen1.jpg><RCA AE 6000x1.jpg><RCA AE
6000 bro4x.jpg>

I do not know if this product ever came out, but certainly from what I can
tell by pulling brochures from the DC Video file cabinet is that I picked up
this printed material in 1978 or so and it appeared to be a real product.
But I never heard of any implementation. Perhaps the heavy weights here on
the list i.e. Gary Adams, John Turner, Don Norwood, Chris Hill, Trevor Brown
and others who were associated with RCA gear (perhaps the recipient of a
sales pitch or two) could elaborate. If 1978 is an accurate time period for
this product to be marketed, then I think we have to keep in mind what the
competition was then i.e. Ampex ACE, CMX 340, ISC, Mach 1, and perhaps some
others that I've failed to mention. If one looks at the CRT display here,
it's a bit convoluted compared to the industry standard at the time (in my
opinion), that being the CMX 340. So perhaps the RCA AE 6000 was a little
too late to come to market. 

I once worked with a woman who had just come from a religious network
editing facility who had four TR-600A's tied to (I think) a CMX edit system,
and she swore by them. 

There were four 600As tied to a CMX 340 (no AE-6000) in edit five at NBC
Burbank, and those machines would move tape very fast, even dual edit record
under CMX control. However, they were not very reliable in other aspects.
That edit room had been originally projected to have four AVR-3's, but an
"upper level decision" placed the 600A's in that project instead. 

One last note: The brochure mentions that this editor has a "switcher
control system designed to interface with any 1600 series Grass Valley E-MEM
equipped switcher" (did not scan that page yet but can if someone wants to
see it). I can't recall RCA ever mentioning another major manufacturer in a
brochure, although I could be dead wrong. Perhaps this was a no brainer as
RCA was (?) totally out of the switcher business by then.

David Crosthwait

DC Video

2 <http://www.dcvideo.com/obsolete-video-formats/2-inch-quad.html> " quad
transfers and more...
<http://www.dcvideo.com/obsolete-video-formats/2-inch-ampex-vr-660.html> 

www.dcvideo.com <http://www.dcvideo.com/> 

Not seen this before, but I'd say it's an RCA multi-machine edit controller
circa 1983-86.  

Perhaps a product that didn't make it into any facilities before the door
was shut and Nipper's doghouse closed.

Ted

Looks like a "super-duper" CMX type editing device for the TR-600 or above
RCA quads. BIG floppy drives to hold edit info (reminds me of the 4100
Chyron's). Buttons and panels very similiar to the TR-600 edit system at
Olympic Broadcasting Studio in Chicago mid to late 70's. Machines had come
from Montreal Olympics, no 2 quite alike, what complete DOGS. Thankfully the
truck had HS-100!

Pat

Good stumper.

It looks like it was done by either CDL or Telemation.

The 5 inch disc drives give it a time frame of the 70's or early 80's.

It has to be after the original CMX as the unit has some features that were
enhancements.

Have no idea other than that.

Chris Hill

_________________

On Mar 4, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Trevor Brown wrote:

Looks like an RCA AE600 edit panel 
You can clearly see the gold key as in 66 gold key 6 (Change Pal Phase)
There should be a Blue key too (edit replay)
Picture is a little burnt out to identify

Don't remember the 5 1/4 discs or the comments key board 

TrevorB
UK member

-----Original Message-----
From: quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com
[mailto:quadlist-bounces at quadvideotapegroup.com] On Behalf Of David
Crosthwait
Sent: 04 March 2011 15:59
To: Quad List
Subject: Re: [QuadList] Question of the week

Here is a photo from the file cabinet.
The questions for the contest are:
What is it?
What is the model number?
Did anyone ever see one in action other than on the showroom floor? 
Was it a product that was "Dead On Arrival"?

Other documentation will be posted about what this is (or was supposed to
be) once the questions have been answered. 

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